Allison Tsao
Hey, Antoinette.
Antoinette Trimble
Hey, Allison. So on the 12th of August, we hosted a webinar on behalf of the Architects Registration Board of Victoria. It was called ‘Building Trust in Client Architect Relationships’. So we went through a ton of content. We got a ton of comments as well as questions that we couldn't get through all of them. So this recording is our attempt to address some of the big juicy questions that came up that we wanted to follow up with around that webinar.
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, and there were four key questions around trust. Firstly, how do I build trust with someone who's not open to building trust with me? How do I go about repairing trust when it's been lost? What does ‘without an agenda’ mean in terms of instigating a relationship, a conversation with someone that we're trying to build our relationship with, but instigating a discussion that doesn't necessarily have an agenda? And also themes around what is intimacy when we talk about intimacy? Is it about being overly friendly all the time? Or what actually should it be when we talk about intimacy? So they're the topics that we're going to talk through today.
Allison Tsao
Yeah, great. And if you haven't watched the webinar, we'd suggest that you do so that some of our responses make sense to you. And I know that video is posted on the ARBV YouTube channel and their website. So let's go through these questions.
The first one was, how do I build trust with someone who is not open to building trust with me? What are your thoughts on that one?
Antoinette Trimble
Well, I think there's a very common view that we assume that because someone is hard to deal with that they're just not open to building trust. So there's a lot of assumptions that we also come in. And I think the best way to approach that is to actually try to leave your assumptions at the door and come in with an open mind.
Really approach those people with a lot of curiosity and really trying to understand what they're coming into that conversation with. So perhaps they have preconceived ideas about what it's like to work with architects, what architects are like.
And so I think those relationships are great to start off with a conversation about the process that's to come about how you work. Also asking them about their expectations. So really starting with some open questions to understand what is important to them. And that might be a way to break down some of the assumptions that they're coming with to that conversation.
Allison Tsao
Nice. So check your assumptions, ask questions, get to know the person and what motivates them. I'd add something too, because I work with a lot of people who have this very question and we talk a lot about, oh, I've been trying to lean in, I've been really generous with my assumptions and still this person just is really challenging to work with. And so part of it is also, if you feel like you've been putting in the effort and the trust just isn't there, I would reframe your goal around building trust to instead building mutual respect.
Do we have mutual respect in this relationship? You might not trust me, but at least respect me because I bring some value to this conversation and project as do you. So can we at least respect each other and just notice if you can get there or not.
And then the second thing is setting really good boundaries because for whatever reason, this person may not trust you and it may not have anything to do with you. Sometimes I think we get so stuck in our like, did I do something? How do I change this relationship? But they might be going through their own stuff in life and it might not have anything to do with you.
And so recognizing that, okay, maybe their behaviour is impacting you in a way that you don't feel like you have a trusting relationship. How do you set good, healthy boundaries so you don't let their behaviour impact how you show up at work or on the project? So those are two other things to consider too, if you're really feeling like there's just almost like a wall between you and your client.
All right, let's go to the second one. This is another pretty juicy question. How do I go about repairing trust when trust has been broken?
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, so I'm assuming the situation which we'd been hearing in the workshop as comments is more about you've gone through a project and maybe something's happened. And so through that process, maybe trust was lost. Perhaps it was about a budget and they felt that you had misled them by not being super upfront with the costs. And so it's about how to rebuild that trust.
And I think a great way to think about that is really looking at the trust equation and being honest with yourself about your level of reliability, the amount of credibility that you've built with the client and what activities that you do might actually help contribute to improving your credibility with the client.
So for example, if there's a certain area you failed on, like let's say budget estimating, then maybe you really look at how you're doing that from that point on. And you can come to an agreement about how you're going to flag things early, what their expectations are around that. And so that might be a way that you really focus in on the exact area that the trust needs to be repaired in. So I think that really is about your self-reflection on how you got there.
Allison Tsao
Yeah, beautiful. So I'll add some to that too. So like starting with self-reflection, how did I get here? And then secondly, acknowledging. So there's been a breach of trust, you know, there's been a hurt, and acknowledging with your client what that was.
For example, if you didn't tell them the cost up front or the cost came in at double the amount, acknowledging that, ‘I realised this wasn't your expectation and that this number I'm sharing with you is completely out of your budget’.
The second thing is like empathy. Yeah, because we don't practise empathy enough, but it's a really powerful skill to say, once I acknowledge, I can also imagine, right? Imagine how that person must have felt in that moment when they got hit with that cost that felt like double or was like literally double of what they were expecting. So you might put yourself in their shoes and say, ‘I can imagine when you saw that number, how shocked you were’, right? That's empathy.
And then I love what you said too about then coming to the table with, okay, where do we go from here, some sort of resolution. Options or alternatives to essentially right the wrong, right? So that's what a good repair process looks like. It's having that self-awareness, it's acknowledging what happened and even acknowledging your part in it, right? I didn't come to you sooner. Having empathy for what the client might be feeling and then coming to resolution.
Antoinette Trimble
And we have talked about that idea, because a lot of architects ask us about the acknowledgement part, and a lot of people think that that's about saying, ‘sorry, it's all my fault’, but it's a bit subtler than that as well.
Allison Tsao
Yes, absolutely. You can take accountability without profusely apologising.
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, an important point.
Allison Tsao
Yeah. All right, this third one, what does ‘without an agenda’ mean? We talked about that concept of ‘without an agenda’ a lot in the webinar. So let's unpack that a little bit.
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, I think agenda, I'm also bringing this back to the trust equation a little bit as well. So being highly self-orientated, walking into a meeting where you're very much focused on your needs would be going in with quite a strong agenda. I think not having an agenda, without an agenda, suggests to me that you're actually going in without any preconceptions and you're actually asking the question of the client about where they're at today, it may not even be about the project.
So that would be your full distance away from your agenda, which is about the project. So I think that's where intimacy then also comes in as an opportunity to build intimacy through having conversations that are not necessarily about project meetings, site meetings, the deadlines coming up, payments, et cetera, but actually having conversations around those, beyond those, topics.
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah. And I think like if I'm putting on like my really analytical hat of like the term without an agenda, somebody might be thinking, ‘but if I'm calling somebody, there's always an agenda’. So really what does ‘without an agenda’ mean?
So I wanna clarify, of course there will be an agenda and the agenda here is understanding your client better and getting information, right?
How do I understand my client better and get information from them? And in ways that maybe might not resemble like the technical aspects of a project. But for example, like if you haven't spoken to your client in four weeks and stuff is happening and you want to just keep them informed, you might call them without an agenda just for the purpose of keeping them informed so that they know you're thinking about them and care about them and want them to know. Yeah?
Or another example might be you were in a project meeting with them yesterday and you noticed that when you shared something, they looked really worried, but you didn't say anything. You just kind of rushed through the rest of the meeting and the agenda. You might pause and the next day think, ‘I'm going to call Antoinette because I noticed she seemed worried in that meeting and I want to understand what she might be worried about’.
And I might call you without an agenda, but again, my agenda is to understand my client and build the trust, right? So if that's how people need to reframe that term, I think that might be more helpful, to get under the hood around how somebody might be thinking or feeling about a process or reacting or getting ahead of a reaction to those are all really trust building moves.
All right, last one. The last question was around intimacy. So intimacy is one of the elements of our trustworthiness equation. It can often be quite a conflated word when I use it in a professional context. People are like, ooh, what role does intimacy have in the world of work?
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, I always think of intimacy as just building a kind of human relationship with someone, just a really personal relationship that is professional, but it's about taking those moments to understand the person a bit beyond the day-to-day.
And that also allows you therefore to understand things that do also relate to the project, like attitudes, values, long-term goals for them or the organisation that maybe sometimes are not explicitly said, and I think it's just more information that is useful to the project.
Intimacy is actually having conversations, initiating conversations with clients, that give you insights into their values and what's important to them that often they don't say explicitly. So it kind of gives you more clues and that might actually also help inform the process, but it also tells the client that you're interested in the project and in the experience for them and how it's going.
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think we defined it on the webinar intimacy as feeling safe to tell you what I really think and feel, right? And if your clients don't feel safe or comfortable telling you how they think and feel, you are going to spend a lot of time guessing or reworking or misunderstanding your client, which leads to a lot of delay or friction.
So intimacy here, it's not about being a people pleaser. It's not about being this person's best friend. It's not about having poor boundaries and saying yes to everything all the time. Those things are not intimacy building. Intimacy building is about really caring about this person in equal measure to how much you care about yourself and also getting your project goals met. Yeah. And I think sometimes people either lean too much into intimacy, like I want to be your best friend, or too much away from intimacy, like we have to be rigid with this working relationship to the point where we're only talking through formal meetings and formal agendas and that person never has any kind of space to truly tell you what they're thinking or feeling.
Antoinette Trimble
Do you think that part of the challenge, is that part of the challenge with intimacy is actually understanding where the right level is for both you and for the client?
Allison Tsao
Yeah, so it's like a dance, right? Like in any relationship, it's a dance. Like you have to think for yourself, what are my boundaries around how much I want to be involved in this person's life? Like for some, especially residential architects, they tell me all the time, they work with families over multiple years. And some of those people become friends in their lives who are calling them at 8pm when it's out of working hours and they choose to pick up those phone calls.
So I think everybody has different boundaries. If that works for you, great. If it doesn't, then you need to clarify what your boundaries are. You can be friendly and not have to take calls at 8PM, right? That's called a solid boundary. We have to negotiate those things either upfront, which I would call contracting, right? How do you contract with your client around how you're gonna work together? But then also being flexible and checking in over time if those boundaries need to change or be more flexible.
So the concept of intimacy I recognise is not super straightforward for people, but it's really about how do I create a space where my client feels comfortable telling me what they think and feel. Just going back to that definition can help people anchor. All right, is there anything final we want to wrap up on?
Antoinette Trimble
Well, I think the great thing is that there's quite a lot of resources that we've created.
Allison Tsao
Yeah, like the ‘Why Communication Matters’ video series, which is up on their website and YouTube. Obviously, the recording of this Q&A as well as the original webinar we did. And also if people are interested in actual CPD courses, going to our website and seeing some of the courses that we offer that tackle a lot of what we've talked about today and help architects actually build and practise these very interpersonal and sometimes challenging skills.
Antoinette Trimble
Yep, that's right. And there are some courses there on working with clients in high conflict situations, strengthening relationships and scope creep that you can do.
Allison Tsao
And if people have ideas on what topics they'd want to see more of and aren't there on the platform, we're always open to that feedback. You can e-mail us at cpdforarchitects@gmail.com and get in touch to have a conversation.
So thanks everyone for watching. It's been really fun, Antoinette, just riffing with you today around some really big topics. Appreciate the questions that have come in from everyone. And hopefully we'll see you in one of our workshops again.
Antoinette Trimble
See you soon.
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