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Giorgio Marfella
Okay, good afternoon everybody. My name is Giorgio Marfella and I am the Chair of the Architects Registration Board of Victoria. So, welcome everybody to the first of a new series of webinars of the ARBV for this new cycle of CPD. As always, I begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the places in which we are meeting today. And in particular, I'm in the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation and I pay my respect to the elders past, present and emerging.
So today we have a presentation that I suppose builds up on previous webinars we've been holding on focus on the importance of having positive client relationships and as well as sound, meaningful agreements with clients that can produce good outcomes for everybody.
So, along this line today, we have two guests who are going to talk specifically about trust and as always, this is an opportunity for having CPD, If you can maybe go back to the previous slide, it's an opportunity for formal CPD that can warrant one point and as normally for those who attend our webinars, you can scan this QR, which will take you to a questionnaire you can use to provide evidence of CPD.
And as I was saying, we have two guests here. I'm very pleased here today to introduce Antoinette Trimble and Alison Tsau.
Antoinette is an architect and a consultant and director of humans who lead, and Alison Tsau is a...
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Antoinette Trimble
Of antelope, sorry.
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Giorgio Marfella
Oh, sorry, Antelope, my mistake. And my mistake. And Alison, on the other hand, is director of Humans who lead, and Alison has extensive experience with working with architects with people skills. So, Alison and Antoinette together, they have formed a platform which is known as a CPD for architects, which is a specific focus on people's skills.
It's an interesting opportunity to expand on the CPT opportunities that sometimes for architects we know are limited, or they might tend to be a bit more technical.
So, with this, I can now hand over to Antoinette and Alison, and I'll be back as usual for moderation of QA as it comes through. So over to you, Antoinette.
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Antoinette Trimble
Thank you, Giorgio. I hope everyone can hear me and thanks again for joining us for this session today. So just a quick introduction. As Giorgio said, I'm an architect and I actually focus on the beginning part of design. So, working with people and stakeholders to develop visions for projects, workplaces and education projects and taking that all the way through to through the briefing and design advisory. I actually approached Alison a long time ago when I realized that the CPD offerings that were out there were very technical focused and there was a real gap in providing offerings that help architects develop their people skills.
So having worked with Alison before, I realised that actually we could come together and offer something quite unique. So, Alison, perhaps you can talk about yourself and a little bit about our collaboration with ARBV.
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Allison Tsao
Sure. Hi, everyone. My name is Alison. I am not an architect. Maybe I'm the only non-architect on the call today. I am what would be called an organization development consultant, so OD consultant for short. I'm also a facilitator and an executive coach. I started my career in Australia doing workplace change and transformation programs. And that's where Antoinette and I met. And my role in those workplaces change projects was really to support end users in navigating and transitioning through change. So very practically speaking, we were working with a lot of end users of workplace projects who wanted more collaboration, as an example. And the
example I used to give is, you know, it's not enough to just knock down walls and expect people to collaborate.
People really need to understand why it's important and how to use the workspace as it was designed to be intended to use and do that in a sustainable and energizing way. And it's when people use the space as it was intended, that's what's really bringing the design briefs to life. So, I've been doing that and then running my own consultancy now in Australia for the last 14 or 12 years. And I'm thrilled to actually be partnering with ARBV as well as Antoinette here today to bring more human, a more human lens to how we do business and how we operate with our clients and stakeholders.
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Antoinette Trimble
Thank you.
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Antoinette Trimble
So we'll get started. Just a quick overview of how things are going to work today. So, our first 45 minutes is really about us sharing with you some key trust building concepts. Just so you know, the recording will be shared with everyone after this as well as the slides. So, you will have that as a reference.
And then we'll have 15 minutes of Q&A, so you can save up your questions till then. Throughout this whole presentation webinar, there will be some polls. So, it is an opportunity for you to think and reflect. The polls will be run on an external platform, Slido. So, it would be great if you had either your phone handy or just a browser somewhere that you can actually use the Slido website as well. So just keep that in mind.
And at the end, as promised, there is the quiz, which is what will allow you to get your certificate for your one formal hour. It is, it does actually require you, I think, to put your e-mail in and that will allow you to then get the certificate. So yeah, I think that's everything about today. And just a little bit about what we're going to be focusing on in those 45 minutes. So really, firstly, why is trust important? So, a bit of a reflection about why, then we're going to share with you an equation that breaks down trust into some really key concepts, which I think makes it just more manageable and understandable for us. And then we're going to use a client example case study of an architect that we want you to reflect on and think about how you might approach that situation. So, getting quite practical. And our last bit, which we always do in all our learning development, is to actually think about something, one thing that you're going to be taking away and applying this week.
So, getting super, super practical in the last step.
So, we'd actually like to start with this question, which is also a bit of a test of your technical abilities. We'd like you to, in a minute, you'll be either pointing your phone or going to slido.com and typing in the number. And once you get that up, we'd like you to answer the following question and we'll give you a moment to think but it's on a scale of 1 to 10, how important is building trust with your clients to the success of your projects?
have a think. If it is not important, that would be down on the number one end of the scale. but if you think it's something that's really crucial and important, that would be all the way to 10. So, we'd like you to think about that scale and just type in your answer and we're going to share with you what we've been hearing. So, I'll give you a moment to do that now.
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Allison Tsao
So we're seeing over 200 responses come in right now. So, we'll give a little more time before we flash the results on the screen for everyone to see.
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Antoinette Trimble
I think we've still got even people joining, so...
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Allison Tsao
Absolutely. So, we've got about 350 responses. I'll start bringing it up on the screen. So, if you haven't snagged the QR code from the screen, do so now or just jot down that number because we'll be coming back to this poll two or three more times throughout today.
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Allison Tsao
So I will flash up the results that we're seeing right now. And again, please continue putting in your result if you have it.
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Allison Tsao
All right, so on a scale of 1 to 10, there's about 400 people still responding on here. So, 73% of you all rated a 10 out of 10.
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Antoinette Trimble
Huh, okay. That's rather overwhelming evidence.
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Allison Tsao
So, we'll go back to the Prezi now, because we've got some data to work with.
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Antoinette Trimble
Sounds good.
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Antoinette Trimble
So clearly there's a really heavy skew toward the very, very, very mission critical important end of our scale. I'm not sure the prezzo is coming up yet. Oh, I see. You have to just click this.
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Antoinette Trimble
Is that better? So hopefully you can all see the screen now. So, the disconnect is rather obvious. In our experience and in your poll, people are telling us that trust is critical to a project. But interestingly, we were almost never really taught how to build trust.
And I suppose what's really important to remember is it is something that isn't just a personality trait. It's actually a set of behaviours that can be practiced. And that's something we believe strongly in. So really, let's be deliberate about the way that we're building these skills. And that's really the reason we're all here and that we've all dialled in today.
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Antoinette Trimble
Now, just a bit of a reflection for you about when we don't have trust. What is the real impact? I'm just going to, on the screen, you can see quite a few things here, but I'm just going to pick out two key things here. And I think one very obvious way that trust can impact is when you just don't get paid.
So having to do work for free. And often it's because a fee is contested. And this might be that the trust has really been lost with the client. Perhaps they're not convinced of the value of what you're offering, or there's some issue around how that's perceived. And also, that could
but not necessarily, it may lead to complaints, or it might just be an impact on your reputation, and I think something really important to reflect on is that the way that architects build their practice is through reputation and through word of mouth. And I think it can have a big long-term impact on your practice as well.
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Antoinette Trimble
So, now I'd like to hand over to Alison to talk about what earns us trust.
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Allison Tsao
Yeah, so this is the big question, what actually earns trust? And it's a common question when people use the term trust around what does that actually mean? So, we're going to take the next 15 minutes to unpack that and give you 4 elements to really help you understand what creates trust and how you can more intentionally do that.
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Allison Tsao
So in 2000, Meister, Green and Galford wrote a book called The Trusted Advisor. and in that book, it was meant to support people in the professional services who work a lot with clients as the core of their work. and one of the key elements they talk about in that book is this trustworthiness equation. So, we're going to take a few minutes to break it down.
So, you'll notice first that it's called the trustworthiness equation, not the trust equation. And why is that? Because trust is a relationship. So, it's a relationship between you and someone else. And these four elements that we're going to go through give you the opportunity to do whatever is in your control to be able to build trust with someone else. There's another side of that equation where that person now has to extend you the ability to trust you, right? And sometimes for whatever reason, people, no matter what, may not easily trust you. And so, understanding what is and what is not in your control is an importantperspective to take when you are building trust. So, this trustworthiness equation presents you four ways on how you can start to build more trustworthiness with the clients and stakeholders you work with.
Notice that it is an equation, okay? And it's not just a sum; it's actually a fraction. There are 3 elements that sit at the top in the numerator called credibility, reliability, and intimacy. And we'll unpack each of those in a few slides next. All divided by what we call self-orientation or whose interests am I actually serving, myself or the clients? Yeah, so if you are a mathematician in the room, you will know that the higher the denominator, so the higher my self-orientation, the lower I trust, the lower my trust becomes.
Yeah, so you could do all of the great work about building credibility, reliability, and intimacy, but if you have a high level of self-orientation in how you work with others, that will erode all the great trust-building moves you've made. Okay, so let's dig into it and let's really unpack what this looks like and means...
So, the first one, credibility. Okay, so credibility is about your words, your expertise, your presence. It's really answering the question, does my client believe what I tell them? Do they believe what I tell them? Do I have the expertise? Am I communicating in a way that they understand and in a presence that emits a sense of confidence? in the client. Okay? It's what people mean when they say someone knows what they're talking about, and also conversely admits when they don't. So, we offer a couple of suggestions or ways of building it, and then also a couple of examples on how credibility might be eroded.
These are not exhaustive lists, but there's some ideas to get you started thinking about if you resonate with them and some things you might try. So a couple of ways to build credibility.
Firstly, saying what you know and labelling what you're estimating. On the other hand of that, saying what you don't know and actually saying, I don't know, and committing to follow up at a certain time. Because as I imagine, most of you are working in complex, ever-changing, sometimes uncertain environments. There's a constant shift in what we do, and we don't know these days and being able to clearly and articulate and articulately communicate that to your clients is really important.
Sometimes it can also be helpful to walk them through your thinking or show them your reasoning as well, not just your conclusion. So, if you got to a certain number in the fee proposal, actually talking through what led to that number and helping them understand your thought process, not just your conclusion.
It can also be helpful sometimes to bring in some relevant precedence’s or references or examples that really demonstrates your credibility and your experience and demonstrates to them, I know what I'm talking about.
Some examples of what erodes credibility, and we've seen this with all, you know, some of the architects that we've worked with in the past, is either being vague, I wouldn't say bluffing on cost, actually, I would say being more vague around cost, program or approvals, or even the process that it's going to take.
So, clarity is our friend, especially when working with clients, because clients want to know with some level of certainty what's going to happen.
Over promising. So, this could be related to a fee proposal to win a job, it could be over promising in other ways too, around how fast something will get done or how easy it's going to be or how straightforward their request is or not. The next one is jargon used as a shield. So sometimes as technical experts, we're very comfortable and familiar with the words that we use in our industry and forget sometimes that our clients may only be undertaking this project or this type of work once in their lives. So having some compassion and empathy for how our clients are showing upand using simple everyday language as a way to bring them along the journey and help educate them on the way can really build credibility.
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Allison Tsao
The last one here, being right in a way that makes the client wrong. Okay, so there's a fine line and maybe many of us can actually think of an example where somebody corrected us or somebody told us a piece of fact or data or evidence in a way
that made us feel a little bit stupid or maybe even wrong for asking the question. There's no real way to put our finger on why, but sometimes when we can catch ourselves, when we're trying to educate the client, are we doing it from a place of genuinely wanting to bring them along the journey? Or are we doing it from an egoic place where we're trying to prove what we know? and when we come from that egoic place, that can sometimes erode our credibility and the trust with clients.
So, the next one is reliability, right? Reliability means, can I depend on you to do what you said you were going to do? It's about your actions, large and small, repeated over time. So, the interesting thing about reliability is of all of the different elements, reliability takes some time for people to build, right? You've got to have a track record of delivering over time. So, things that build reliability is making promises that are small enough to keep. Yeah? And on the other side of that also, when you make large promises, making sure you deliver on those two. For example, sending the thing on the day you said that you were going to do, or conversely, also proactively communicating when something may not go to plan, right? So maybe you set a deadline for Thursday, and by Monday morning, you kind of have a sense that you're not going to hit that deadline. So being proactive in telling the client that before Thursday comes around.
The other thing that signals reliability to clients is a similar format, rhythm, or consistency in how you work together. I like to call that like an operating rhythm. So, if you're working with some of your clients for a year or longer, setting up some kind of rhythm where you might meet every Friday at 9 A.m. for a call that you might send them an e-mail update every Wednesday afternoon, that when you do meet in your conversations, you might structure it in a way that gives them some space to talk about their concerns, and then three things that you want to go over so that they come to expect a similar rhythm and format every week and that certainty can give people a high level of trust and reliability in you.
Some things that erode it, I think we're all guilty of this because we're human, is going quiet during a difficult phase maybe the deadlines are getting very frequent maybe there's a high level of stress, maybe people feel under pressure for whatever reason. When things get difficult, our blinders tend to kind of come down and we start to go into survival mode or getting things done mode. And so, recognizing that and coming out to check in with your clients when you do feel like under the pump or under pressure is a really trust building move.
Different answers from different people in the practice so, if you work, if you are working as part of a team, many of you are maybe in projects that have many different stakeholders as well, making sure that you as a team, regardless of what role you're playing on the team, are aligned and on the same page.
Because oftentimes when you are a client and you're going and asking different people things and getting different answers, it starts to create a seed of doubt around how much you can trust somebody's response.
Missing the small deadlines while defending the big ones. So, trust is built, like I said, in those everyday small moments over time and so what might feel like a small deadline to you might actually signal or start to plant that seed of doubt with the client. So, making sure that you are consistent. And that's not to say you have to perfectly deliver to every deadline that trust building move, complemented by being able to be proactive in communicating when you can't make a deadline and why, can be really helpful in you managing expectations of your clients and building that reliability over time.
So, the third one in the numerator is intimacy. So, intimacy often tends to be the trickier one when we talk to clients of every scale, size, and function. And it's been particularly true in working with architects. Intimacy is all about, do I feel safe telling you the truth. Okay? Intimacy signals emotional safety, and how that practically translates is, will a client tell you that awkward thing early enough so that you can do something about it? And its oftentimes architects rate themselves lowest on this, but it's in the trustworthiness equation, part of the equation that often has the fastest return. Yet we forget about it or sometimes even feel uncomfortable with it in working relationships.
So, a couple of ways to build it. Firstly, ask an open question and then actually be quiet and listen. Yeah, an example of an open question is, how do you think the process is going? Or how are you actually finding this process?
If you notice something just feels a little bit awkward or uncomfortable, and for many of us that might be talking about when a deadline might slip or when a fee is coming in at a different cost, be the one to name the awkward thing first. Don't wait for your client to bring it to you. Be the one to name it first and bring it to them.
Another intimacy building move is simply checking in with your clients informally. So yes, it's great to have that formal rhythm and cadence to build that reliability, but intimacy and oftentimes the most helpful and productive conversations come from the spontaneous ones. It might be you just having a site visit with the client and saying, actually, do you want to go grab a coffee for 15 minutes and just have a chat and check in? It might be calling with no agenda. Oftentimes that signals to the stakeholder that you genuinely care about the relationship.
Things that eroded. So, every conversation starting with an agenda. Sometimes when we're too formal, it becomes a bit stiff and less intimate. The second one, reassuring people out of their concerns. So, I'm definitely guilty of this one. I, of course, want all of my clients to feel happy with the work that I do for them.
So when they bring a concern, it might be uncomfortable and your tendency might be to reassure them that everything's fine. But an intimacy building move is to actually give them space to talk about their concern and help you understand it better before you seek to resolve it or take action against it.
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Allison Tsao
This is related to the third one here, treating emotion as noise to be managed. So, I imagine that many of you are working with clients that will become emotional at some point in the project. Maybe if you're a residential architect, this is, you know, a family that's put their entire savings on the line. And that can be an incredibly emotional context. So treating it as something as important as
data, right? Emotions are data and when people come and have an emotional response, your job is to really understand what's happening for them that's creating that response. Say your client, you call them and they're angry. You might say, I notice you sound really angry. What's driving that for you?Or tell me about why you feel angry. And get that data that can help inform what solutions need to go from there. And the last one here is only making contact when you need something. I definitely notice when I work with colleagues and the ones that genuinely check in to say hello every morning versus the ones that only e-mail me when they need something.
There's something that feels very transactional when people do that. So, making it more about the relationship in some moments can help you build goodwill and also enable the other person to want to collaborate with you more and help you more when you actually do need it.
So, the measure of intimacy is simple. It's will your client tell you that awkward thing early, hopefully, later, still good, or never, which is not what you want. And we have plenty of examples we can talk to, but we don't have so much of that time today.
So, let's get to the last part of the equation, self-orientation. This is the denominator of the equation. High self-orientation shows up as needing to be right, needing to look good, or needing to fill the silence. It tends to be people who are coming with a me first attitude, right? So, lowering it,
multiplies everything above and increases all of the trust and goodwill you've created. It is also important to notice that this is, and so never do you want to have zero in your denominator because that actually doesn't exist. That's not a thing. So, I also want to emphasize that we've talked to a number of architects who said, actually, my self-orientation is so low, and I actually need to dial it up.
So, it's an interesting reflection for you to think about today. Where am I on that self-orientation? Do I feel balanced? Or am I toward zero, which I would kind of name as the doormat syndrome? Do I put people's needs way above my own? Or am I on the other side of the spectrum and do I put my needs way above the other person? We're looking for balanced self-orientation here, around whose interests am I actually serving.
So ways to do that, ways to balance self-orientation, listen to and understand, not just respond. In working with people, we all struggle with this common phenomenon that when someone starts talking, we immediately start drafting our response in our heads. So, fight the urge to do that and really sit and listen to what that person is saying, rather than drafting a response. Let the client's problem be the subject. So again, if they're naming a concern, don't just reassure them and move on to what you need from them, but really give them a space to address their problem or concern.
Give away a small win. So, if everything they ask you comes with a hard no, people will start asking and they'll start shutting down. And that's where the intimacy in the relationship starts to get impacted. So, give away a small win that feels like something small, low risk, a goodwill gesture, if you will.
And you could also ask, ask yourself, when you're thinking about that small win, is it more important to be right or to keep this relationship? Because oftentimes, and I know we've talked to architects in workshops about this, you know, they'll lean on the contract, they’ll lean on the technical specs or requirements and to some extent, yes, there is a lot of black and white in that. And sometimes when we're fighting about every little detail, we have to ask ourselves, is it more important to be right here or to keep this relationship and give away that small win?
Some things that are erode trust or self-orientation, so defending the design instead of hearing the concern, right? So again, giving your client space to air their concern might actually give you ideas on how to improve the design too or alter it. And it may not, but you still would have let them speak it and preserve the trust.
Talking through a client's pause. So, for example, a client might, you might ask the client, how do you think the process is going? And they might pause, right? And many of us, what I know about humans is we can often be really uncomfortable with silence. And you might take that silence as, nope, they're all fine, everything's good, and talk through it. But that pause is telling you something. It's giving them the courage to tell you something uncomfortable.
The third one here, leading with what you need, right? So it can be a really great move to actually ask the client what they need before you are launching into everything you need from them.
And then this 4th one, which sometimes looks like blame. So, framing every step back as someone else's fault. Oh, it was the builder who was delayed. Oh, the project manager didn't give me this. And to some extent, yes, that is true. And also, not always helpful when you're working with your client.
So remember, is it important to be right or to preserve the relationship? And your answer is going to be different in different contexts.
So, I want to bring you back to the Slido again. You've got four elements of the trustworthiness equation. The first question is going to ask you, and I'm just going to start that survey now, to log on to Slido and ask you, which are you the strongest in? We talked through all four of these. Maybe there's one you feel like I'm doing really well already.
in that area and I want to really celebrate that because that's important to acknowledge too.
Give you a pause moment to think about that. Which one are you the strongest on?
I see about 200 of you are logged in. I will bring up the results in a minute.
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Allison Tsao
All right, what do you see here, Infinite? What are you noticing?
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Antoinette Trimble
I'm just going to pop it up on the screen because it sort of, I think now we can see. So, I can see reliability is something that
People are saying they are most strongest at, which I think, you know, architects hitting deadlines is actually something that's very ingrained in our education.
0:31:43.757 --> 0:31:44.797
But...
We've got a few people who... are also good at credibility. So, it's coming with their reputation and some with intimacy, but it's overwhelmingly the reliability might be the piece that people are most comfortable with perhaps.
0:32:6.397 --> 0:32:18.637
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah. So, we're also going to ask you the converse of this question. So let me toggle back to the QR code. It's the same code. And we're going to ask you the other question, which one needs attention?
Yeah, which one needs attention based on the trust equation? So, there's one you do really well, which one do you want to put more attention to that you may not do as well?
So back to that question and that QR code, and we'll give you a moment to respond, and we'll flash up the results of that one.
0:32:57.757 --> 0:32:58.957
Allison Tsao
Okay, so we've got about...
Two, 300 responses. I'll bring up the results of that poll. Really interesting here.
0:33:2.477 --> 0:33:2.797
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah.
0:33:8.237 --> 0:33:9.277
Allison Tsao
Here we go.
0:33:16.237 --> 0:33:17.437
Antoinette Trimble
Ah, interesting.
0:33:16.557 --> 0:33:17.117
Allison Tsao
All right, so.
0:33:19.677 --> 0:33:20.477
Antoinette Trimble
There we go.
0:33:21.997 --> 0:33:22.957
Antoinette Trimble
Forty percent.
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Allison Tsao
Yeah, absolutely. And this is not surprising in the conversations that we've had with architects over the last two years around this very topic, and that some of us can feel like, or wonder what the boundaries are between a strong relationship and a level of intimacy where someone can tell us truly how they're feeling and thinking about something versus that professional boundary that we often feel like we have to hold at work.
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Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, the interesting part also is that self-orientation is the next thing as well, because I feel like it isn't a hard and fast, it should always be high, and it should always be low. So it is a little bit more about gauging the situation as well as where you sit in it.
0:34:8.317 --> 0:34:17.117
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah. And balancing self-orientation also has to do around boundaries, right? So how do I get my needs met, but also support you in getting your needs met?
0:34:18.797 --> 0:34:20.77
Allison Tsao
All right, well...
0:34:18.797 --> 0:34:20.637
Antoinette Trimble
That's some good data to take us in.
0:34:21.517 --> 0:34:32.477
Allison Tsao
Very interesting. Thanks everybody for participating in those polls. And we're going to bring this concept to life in the next part where Antoinette's going to walk you through an example.
0:34:35.117 --> 0:34:35.997
Antoinette Trimble
Thanks, Alison.
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Antoinette Trimble
So we're going to talk about a case study, a situation, and we're going to get you to reflect on how you might react in this situation, given what we've just heard from Alison and reflected on around trust. So, the project that we'd like to talk about is an example project. It's a... Alternads project to an existing terrace in Melbourne. Now we've got the clients who are Ben and Priya. They're a couple with two young children. And they've found an architect, Renee, through word of mouth.
So, the first meeting is great. They sit down in their cramped little living room, and they've discussed with Renee exactly what they wanted. They do mention their budget and Renee takes note of that. Renee then takes them through client architect agreement, which later on they signed. Now, Ben and Priya have been really engaged in the process, really responsive. They're very excited about the project and the opportunity to create a home that really works for their family.
They’ve even told Renee that they feel so lucky to have found someone who really gets their brief. They really felt that Renee listened to what was working, what wasn't working about the house, and they liked the early sketches and options that she put forward. So, meetings felt really like a collaboration, and that was great. Six weeks in, things were going really well.
So, what happened?
So, there was a turning point in just a conversation. So, this is what we're describing is quite a small moment that we'd like you to think about. So, at a concept design meeting, Renee included a rough cost range along with the drawings.
This is something that wasn't necessarily asked for by the clients, but it was something that Renee thought would be good to do at this stage. Now, the range came in 40% over the original budget that Ben and Priya had mentioned in their first meeting as their cap.
So, when this landed, the tone in the room really changed.
Priya went quiet and Ben said very slowly, we didn't think it would be this high. Did you know this the whole time and just didn't say anything till now?
So, it wasn't said with hostility, but it did land as an accusation. And, you know, the walt in the room really sort of dropped.
And Renee felt the ground had sort of shifted from being her as a trusted collaborator to someone who now isn't telling the truth, the whole truth.
So, what did... What is, what would you do in this situation? Is the question we'd like to ask. So just don't overthink. We've got a slider set up for you to put this in. We're just looking for what your instinct would tell you to do if you were Renee.
We'll give you 60 seconds to have a think, and we can pop up the summary once we've had this down of that case study just to jog your memory.
0:38:7.357 --> 0:38:15.517
Allison Tsao
All right, we're getting some responses in. We'll give everyone another 20 seconds and we'll flash up some responses.
0:38:35.357 --> 0:38:38.237
Allison Tsao
All right, Antoinette, do you want to read some aloud?
0:38:39.197 --> 0:38:48.957
Antoinette Trimble
Okay, let me see. Whoa, okay, they're coming in fast. Let's see how fast. Okay, there's some interesting things coming in.
0:38:41.117 --> 0:38:42.317
Allison Tsao
Well, they're going so fast.
0:38:51.837 --> 0:39:4.397
Antoinette Trimble
Okay, so actually explaining what they want and how it may or may not align with their budget is something that, so people are talking about actually getting into the understanding a little more about the budget.
There’s people offering straight away, I'll revise the design, we'll change, we'll look at the budget like that. Some people are apologising for the surprise. These are the kinds of things. Alison, would you add any?
0:39:23.277 --> 0:39:39.357
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah, some talking about explaining. Other ones, great. I noticed that you're listening to the other part is around hearing their concerns. Yeah, giving them time to explain their concerns. Work through the design and related cost.
0:39:45.517 --> 0:39:46.717
Allison Tsao
Yeah, so.
0:39:45.837 --> 0:39:48.397
Antoinette Trimble
The admission of an earlier check, yeah.
0:39:48.797 --> 0:39:52.157
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah. So, lots of interesting perspectives here.
0:39:54.477 --> 0:40:7.837
Allison Tsao
So it's good for us to think through how would we respond to this? So, let's actually go back to the case study and offer one way to respond that could help you understand how to frame this through a trust lens.
0:40:8.397 --> 0:40:8.717
Antoinette Trimble
Yep.
0:40:10.397 --> 0:40:11.357
Allison Tsao
Go back on the screen.
0:40:24.877 --> 0:40:45.37
Antoinette Trimble
So I'll take you through in a minute exactly what Renee ended up doing. So like Alison said, this is 1 approach and we can talk through a little bit about that. So what did the architect actually do next? At the moment the client asked, why didn't you say anything till now? Renee's instinct was really strong to over-explain and to just walk back the number and hedge it as, oh, look, it was rough. It could come down. But she held that back. She didn't do that. Instead, she did three things.
The first thing she did is she listened.
She paused.
She took a breath and didn't immediately defend her actions.
Secondly, she acknowledged that she could have flagged it earlier when she had a feel for the budget, not just based on experience, rather than aiming for a more exact range like she had presented.
And then the third thing was really important, and a lot of you did talk to this in your comments. She got really practical. So, she actually suggested they go through each element of the design and think about where the majority of costs might lie, such as in remedial works to the flooring and roof. Which sometimes can hold a lot of cost. So, there was an opportunity to open up that discourse a little more. But the challenge for Renee was that she really had to withhold herself. She purposefully didn't jump to correct that accusation of withheld information.
This meant that for her she had to sit in the couple's uncomfortable disappointment. I suppose I might describe it as that. However, it let her have time to listen, to compose herself and to actually respond thoughtfully, saying, I should have flagged this earlier, and then offering a solution on how to move forward.
So interestingly, how did this land for the clients? Well, they really appreciated the honesty that Renee showed, and they cautiously re-engaged with that process and slowly started to understand the situation whilst probing for savings. And how did it change Renee's approach?
Well, as the project progressed, she actually flagged more informally potential costs implications that were coming early. And this made the client feel more confident in the budget, but also the client could then better manage their own contingencies around finance for the project in a more realistic way. And Ben and Priya reflected that actually that moment, that conversation was a really key turning point in the project, and they felt that the trust was strengthened based on how Renee had responded.
So, Alison, I suppose that gives us a view. I'd be keen to ask your view on the situation. So where do you see, Alison, that the trust broke down in that situation?
0:43:37.117 --> 0:43:55.77
Allison Tsao
Yeah, the trust broke down. When I hear that, and again, there's no right or wrong answer, but this is how I would interpret what happened through the lens of the trustworthiness equation. I would see the trust having broken down in that intimacy piece and maybe the self-orientation. Like, did you not tell us because you were trying to save yourself? and that's why you didn't flag it earlier. Or the intimacy piece of like, did you not tell us because you didn't think it was important or because you didn't tell, didn't care. The fact that Ben said, did you not tell us, like, why didn't you tell us, meant that this was the relationship challenge, not a credibility or reliability.
0:44:9.437 --> 0:44:10.77
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah.
0:44:14.557 --> 0:44:36.397
Allison Tsao
necessarily. And I think some of the temptation for when architects get into this situation is the temptation to double down on credibility when actually this is an intimacy challenge. Which brings us to that second question, right? How did Renee repair the trust? And so, what I love what you shared, Antoinette, multiple times in that case study was that her inclination to defend and jump in and rush to solution or explaining, but she didn't. She actually took that pause. And that pause was a really important self-orientation move because what she did was make the concern about her client and not about defending herself.
Yeah, so she gave them time to talk. She heard their concern. She tried to understand. And that's a fundamental self-orientation shift when sometimes the temptation is to defend yourself because you might be feeling triggered or attacked. So really trust building move in that micro pause moment and choosing to listen to what the client had to say.
0:45:19.317 --> 0:45:19.677
Antoinette Trimble
Yep.
0:45:21.37 --> 0:45:31.757
Allison Tsao
So with that said, we want to give you all an opportunity to think for yourself, and it won't be a poll, so we're not going to ask you to have to share it out here but just think for yourself, back to that element that you had flagged needed attention. For many of you, for 40% of you, actually, that was intimacy. For a good number of you, it was also balancing self-orientation. What is one small thing that you could start doing right now or try before the weekends? Yeah, pick one thing, not four. I know in our in our environment, it's tempting to have a to-do list of many things to do. So, we're challenging you to pick just one micro strategy because it's often these micro strategies that can make a big difference when practiced in everyday small moments.
So, 30 seconds of quiet to think about that. Again, we won't ask you to share.
0:46:21.597 --> 0:46:40.437
Allison Tsao
And if you want to have some inspiration or ideas, again, we're not asking you to put this in the chat, so just write it down for yourself. But for example, if you wanted to raise intimacy, you might decide this week to call one of your clients with no agenda and just ask them how they're finding the process.
And then stop talking. That's the trick. You zip it. Yeah. If you're balancing self-orientation and that's your focus, you might try in the next meeting, starting with checking in with the client and what they most want to cover instead of starting with what you need.
So just some ideas for you to consider.
We hope you all landed on one micro strategy to practice and something really practical that you can do that will make a big difference in your trust building with clients.
We now have some time for questions and answers, so I'll invite Giorgio back on to moderate some questions and we can spend some time with those.
0:47:30.157 --> 0:47:42.957
Giorgio Marfella
Thank you, Alison. And unfortunately, I'm having technical difficulties, but I'm also not sure if we really have many questions. Well, first of all, could you confirm that?
0:47:52.317 --> 0:47:56.157
Allison Tsao
I've clicked on the Q&A. I don't see any questions on my side just yet.
0:47:54.237 --> 0:47:58.957
Giorgio Marfella
Yeah, yes, okay, okay, but can you hear me?
0:48:0.797 --> 0:48:2.477
Antoinette Trimble
You're cutting in a bit in and out.
0:48:3.117 --> 0:48:12.157
Giorgio Marfella
Okay. Well, in that case, can I suggest, I know you have another segue to this, maybe move on directly to that.
0:48:12.797 --> 0:48:15.277
Antoinette Trimble
Sure, I'm happy to continue on.
0:48:19.197 --> 0:48:24.77
Allison Tsao
Okay, let's get the screen back up. And if people do have questions.
0:48:20.317 --> 0:48:20.837
Antoinette Trimble
Anything.
0:48:22.317 --> 0:48:24.157
Antoinette Trimble
If anyone in the meantime, yeah.
0:48:25.877 --> 0:48:35.197
Allison Tsao
People do have questions, please pop them into the Q&A. Let's get back to that presentation, which my screen is also lagging today, so just give me a moment to...
Get that back up.
0:48:47.37 --> 0:49:5.877
Antoinette Trimble
So if there's three things that you take away today, what we'd really love you to keep in mind is that trust is a set of behaviours, not a personality. And we believe that this can be practiced and taught. And as you can see today, we've really tried hard to break it down into its elements to make it more digestible
with the formula and then applied it to a real-life situation which you can do yourself to your projects and I think you'll be able to apply some of the thinking that we did as well.
Number 2 is to watch the denominator. Basically, that denominator of self-orientation, how much you're focused on yourself, can completely undermine all the work you've done above the line around intimacy, credibility and reliability. And so it's the term that really, no one monitors, but the client really perceives that, especially even in your first meeting.
And #3 is small moves repeated. So really build that trust in the bank with some of those small moments when you're just starting. And then when you get to those more difficult moments, you've actually already built the trust and there's more empathy and leeway around when things are going wrong. -for people to even be able to listen.
So, they're the three things that we'd like you to take away.
I can see there are some Q&As coming in, but I might just continue through and then we can do those Q&As at the end, if you don't mind.
Now, if this session has been interesting to you and you found it valuable, then you can keep going with your learning with us. Like I said, we've developed this platform purely for architects. It's based off feedback we've had in our workshops, the topics that we then steer towards.
It's something that both Alice and I feel passionate about. It is Alison and I doing this. So yes, it's just us. So, what we've created is online learning platform with self-led modules. So, you can do it, fit it into your busy schedule when you need. So that's one option. Some of the topics we've
chosen to focus on our creating strong relationships, great for great design outcomes, managing conflict when emotions are high, which was something that came out of a lot of our workshops that we've done with architects as a real need. And the last one here is upskilling to manage scope creep. Again, it's come out of our conversations with architects,
so very practical.
And the other thing we offer is the Learning Lab, which are interactive workshops. We do these virtual. And you get to bring an actual scenario that you're working on at the moment, an actual project you're in, and a specific conversation that you need to have, perhaps you're avoiding. And you get to real play through that and have coaching live in a very low risk environment. And that's what we've been creating over the past. I think we've been running them for the last three years. And we've had a lot of really wonderful feedback on those sessions. And the last thing we do is some bespoke sessions in your practice. We can come and do lunch and learns a little bit like this, but a bitobviously a lot more interactive. And you can check out those courses at cpdforarchitects.thinkific.com. And we're very happy if you want to reach out to us directly. We're more than happy to chat.
0:52:8.957 --> 0:52:28.717
Allison Tsao
So maybe we pause here and take some questions. Antoinette, yeah? There's a couple of good questions that are coming in. A lot of appreciations too. Thank you for putting in the positive feedback. Dan Weeks has asked us, when we spend a lot of time on large mixed-use projects on DNC contracts, the client is the contractor. How do we best deal with the contractor team being mostly black and white and often demonstrative?
0:52:36.237 --> 0:52:49.437
Antoinette Trimble
I think we've, yeah, we've talked about like where it's less of a typical, he's my client, I'm the architect and there's all different parties involved. And I think Alison, this has come up in our workshops as well. And so there are obviously relationships that are being built between all those different parties. So, I think these principles would actually apply to every single party in that group. We kind of drew a diagram in our brains as well about all those relationships. One thing we do in our learning labs is we ask you to bring one particular relationship you'd like to build on.
So Dan, I would suggest that you actually look at the relationships that you think that you should be improving in that process and focus on the individual people that you actually want to improve that relationship with as a first step. And I suppose that without knowing more detail, that's where I would begin.
Don't know if you have anything to add on that one, Alison.
0:53:38.957 --> 0:53:58.637
Allison Tsao
Yeah, I'd add on that. It's great to have like one person in mind as an example to work with. Otherwise, when you're talking about a team, people have different needs on a team. So definitely start with identifying one person or relationship you want to focus on. And you might run that relationship through the trustworthiness equation lens to say, what might this person care about
the most that they might not be getting, right? Are they not feeling, are they not getting credibility from me? Are they not getting the reliability they're looking for? Are they not getting the intimacy they're looking for? Or do they feel like I just talk over them and don't give them space? So, you might have a hypothesis as to what need is not being met in this relationship that's resulting in any kind of conflict, tension, or even just distance or this kind of like feeling of transaction. So, work with some hypotheses and experiment with some different ways of engaging with that person to see if anything changes as a starting point.
0:54:37.517 --> 0:54:39.117
Antoinette Trimble
There's also a question, yeah.
0:54:37.517 --> 0:54:50.717
Allison Tsao
All right, we've got Dave. Yeah, we've got David here who says, are there other ways rather than self-assessing what our strengths or faults, e.g. 360 degrees, et cetera. Maybe I'll take this one, Antoinette.
0:54:51.997 --> 0:55:15.597
Allison Tsao
Yeah. Okay. So there are so many different tools that you could go out there to assess your strengths, to bring more self-awareness, to even understand your interpersonal preferences or personality preferences. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole today, but David, if you want to talk about that, reach out and let's have a one-on-one conversation.
What I will say is what's great about self-assessing is you're trying to build your self-awareness. And the way you try to figure out whether your self-awareness is matching someone else's perception is by asking that person for feedback.
Yeah, so maybe you're in a relationship with someone where you don't feel comfortable asking for feedback. Maybe just practice the art of asking for feedback with somebody who you know, who you trust right now. It could be a current colleague. It could even be a friend. And ask for feedback because the more our own self-awareness aligns with how other people see us, the more trustworthy our actions become. Okay.
0:55:56.77 --> 0:56:14.677
Antoinette Trimble
There's a question around admitting legal fault for reasons, sorry, not wanting to admit fault for legal reasons. This is something that has come up in our workshops, Alison, if you recall. And it was the difference between apologising rather than apologising to actually just acknowledge what the client is feeling at that point. And it's not necessarily admitting legal risk, legal fault. And I think that's more about when you are repairing a relationship.
So yeah, that was something that had come up in the past as well.
0:56:33.757 --> 0:56:37.277
Allison Tsao
Was there a specific question there, Antoinette, that you were addressing?
0:56:36.877 --> 0:56:47.837
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah, it was architects get taught to avoid automatically admitting fault for legal reasons. How should the practice of authentically admitting when you could have done better to build trust be balanced with legal risk?
0:56:48.877 --> 0:57:12.877
Allison Tsao
Got it, got it. Okay. Maybe we'll try to take one or two more and then we'll start to close. So, Kirsten has a question here. Do you think the way that an architect's fees are structured for a project impact, for a project impact the trustworthiness equation? For example, percentage fees can undermine trust at a time when a client may receive bad news from tenderers about the cost of works.
Is there anything architects can do to moderate between their fees and the trust bill with clients?
0:57:19.197 --> 0:57:40.557
Antoinette Trimble
I'm not a legal, I'm not sorry, I'm not providing this on behalf of the board. But what I would say is that there are a lot of architects that have moved away from percentage fees. And I think there's many reasons, but also, it's that idea that, you know, with escalating costs in the construction industry, it is it does feel a little bit like having your fee linked to that, which is very overblown, but it is problematic. So, you know, perhaps there is something to explore there around that. I have spoken to a lot of architects who say they're definitely moving away from that percentage fee. Having said that, on larger project, I know that that also can still happen.
0:58:0.397 --> 0:58:22.77
Antoinette Trimble
So yeah, I would say there is a bit of a challenge there with a percentage fee. There was a question around having a narcissistic client and people that will never trust you and these things. I was going to just say a general answer around that was something that, you know, Alison, I know you've said in other workshops as well, is actually about trying to understand and find and get more data on the client. So that's being more curious, understanding what's behind some of the things that they're saying, why you're feeling that trust isn't going to shift, but actually understanding more about the client if you've decided this is a relationship that you want to continue and grow.
0:58:38.237 --> 0:58:57.37
Allison Tsao
Yeah, yeah. And there's no one-size-fits-all for relational answers. So, recognize that your context is something that has a lot of nuance and that some of our responses are meant to be more general in how you approach these things. Giorgio, I see you back online. Is there anything you wanted to share or
0:58:56.77 --> 0:58:56.397
Giorgio Marfella
Um...
0:58:57.357 --> 0:58:58.957
Allison Tsao
Can we continue with one more question?
0:58:57.677 --> 0:59:16.317
Giorgio Marfella
Yes, no, just it seems like my connection is working now, hopefully. But I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank you again, and you've already received great feedback. I wanted to also mention that the ARBV is hosting some videos you have prepared for us that you can find on our website. We might, unfortunately, I don't have a link handy now, but please do try to find out more about this.
Also, the CPD platform that you've created. We're really happy and you're definitely intersecting an area of personal relationship and business management, organizational skills that is certainly underrated.
I just wanted to point and hopefully have further opportunities to interact with you. So, thank you again.
0:59:48.637 --> 0:59:50.557
Antoinette Trimble
Thank you, Giorgio and Fiona.
0:59:51.677 --> 1:0:14.357
Allison Tsao
Yeah, thanks, everyone. And we've popped up because I saw a couple of questions about our contact details. So, we've popped that up there on the screen for you. And like Giorgio mentioned, we have done a video series in collaboration with ARBV. It's on their website. It's a free resource for anyone to access. And there are about 5-to-6-minute videos on 8 different topics. So really encourage you to check those out.
0:59:51.997 --> 0:59:52.477
Giorgio Marfella
Thank you.
1:0:15.437 --> 1:0:16.157
Allison Tsao
And.
1:0:15.677 --> 1:0:29.597
Antoinette Trimble
I've got one more thing to add is that we actually will be saving, as I understand, the Q&A in case there are some follow-up questions we might we may be able to address. And the video series is called Why Communications Matters.
1:0:33.597 --> 1:0:37.357
Giorgio Marfella
Great. Thank you again. Bye for now.
1:0:34.37 --> 1:0:34.957
Antoinette Trimble
Thank you, everyone.
1:0:36.157 --> 1:0:36.557
Antoinette Trimble
Yeah.
1:0:38.197 --> 1:0:47.437
Allison Tsao
Thanks everyone. And we flashed the quiz and certificate on the screen. So please take that so that you can get your formal CPB point. Thanks everyone.
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