Giorgio Marfella 0:06
Good afternoon, everybody, good afternoon. My name is Giorgio Marfella and I'm the Chair of the Architects Registration Board of Victoria. So, welcome everybody to another webinar. As always, I like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land in which we are meeting. I'm in the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation and I pay my respects to their elders past and present. So, today's presentation is going to be, it's the second part of a series that we've already commenced, that is the result of a research project the ARBV has undertaken and published earlier in the in the year, that is focused on the idea of strengthening the compliance culture among architects. And as part of that research, we‘ve identified there are some core overarching duties that architects can use to improve their services in the public interest and also for their own benefit. And so today we'll talk in particular about the duties of competence and the duty of care.
And as always, this is an opportunity for you to use also as a formal CPD and we have a QR code that you can scan also that will allow you to prove evidence of attendance, which we will then relay back to you usually within 24 hours. As also, as always, I'll remind everybody that CPD is mandatory in Victoria and the ARBV monitors it as an activity.
So we have 3 presenters today. We have Dariel De Sousa. Dariel's been with us before. Dariel is the Director of Dark Consulting and Legal and she has collaborated with the ARBV in the preparation of the research. So, Dariel will be taking over in a minute and convening the discussion, also with two other guests. We have Rebecca Naughtin, who's the director of her own architectural Practice here in Victoria, and she's also the Victorian Co-Convener of the APE, the Architectural Practice Exam, and we have Emily Gilfillan. Emily is the director, sorry, principal, at GSA Group here and the Melbourne studio leader. Emily and Rebecca will bring two different perspectives, but also complementary and possibly also intersecting on the matter of architectural practice and duties, and in particular Emily will bring in the perspective of a larger firm with multiple firms across Australia and also overseas and Rebecca instead more the the nature of the smaller practices, which are very important, very relevant of course as well here in Victoria certainly; and so also I should mention that both Emily and Rebecca are also two examiners for the ARBV in of the part three of the examination process. Now as always, I'll hand over now to Dariel, but if there's any questions, you can put them in the Q&A and I'll come back towards the end for five or 10 minutes to wrap up some questions. So, over to you, Dariel.
Dariel De Sousa 3:14
Thank you, Giorgio, and good afternoon, everyone. So the primary purpose of my part of the presentation is to share with you some of the key highlights from the ARBV‘s report on strengthening compliance culture in the architecture sector.
Some of you may have attended the first webinar in this series of four, which introduced the report, explained what it contains in general terms. But what we're going to do today, and it's of particular particularly critical practical significance, is to delve into architects' duties to their clients.
There are strong professional, legal and ethical imperatives for architects to have a really deep understanding of these duties. Understanding these duties forms the basis of valued and trusted relationships between architects and their clients. It helps to avoid costly and draining legal disputes that can arise between architects and clients, but also with regulators. It helps to ensure safe and compliant buildings, and more generally, it helps to deliver better outcomes for clients, for architects, the architecture profession generally, and for society at large.
I'm going to be starting with a little bit of background; I realise that some of you were present during webinar one where we talked about this background, so I'll keep it as brief as possible to avoid an unnecessary repetition.
So, just to remind you, the catalyst for the ARBV’s report on strengthening compliance culture was the emergence of evidence indicating that there is room for improvement regarding the attitude and approach of at least some architects and architectural firms towards their compliance obligations under the regulatory framework and the evidence comes from a number of different sources, starting first in 2018 with the Shergold Weir Building Confidence Report, followed by the Cladding Safety Victoria reports on compliance in building design and non-cladding defects on Class 2 buildings, both published in 2024, and reports jointly produced by the ARBV and the NSW ARB on systemic risks in the architecture sector, published respectively in 2022 and then 2024. And what this these reports illustrated is that there are architects that lack competence, that fail to take necessary care when providing architectural services, that do not properly and deeply understand their obligations under the National Construction Code, and that there can these things can result in poor quality design, documentation, and in unprofessional conduct by by architects. Now there are clearly limits associated with the research that has been done previously, and these limits are outlined in the most recent ARBV report. But despite these limits, the ARBV's report is based on the premise that compliance issues do exist within the architecture sector, and this premise is supported by the fact that the ARBV routinely investigates cases involving unprofessional conduct by architects.
So, the in in light of this evidence, the ARBV considers that a focus on compliance culture is absolutely essential. This helps to address the root causes of non-compliance, which is necessary to drive lasting change, rather than focusing on the symptoms of cultural issues, which is the incidence of of non-compliance in practice. And this proactive focus on compliance culture is supported by comments made by
Commissioner Hayne back in 2019 in the context of the Financial Services Royal Commission, where he said that historically, regulators have only given limited, paid limited attention to the connection between poor culture and misconduct and instead have focused on incidents of non-compliance rather than really delving into systemic issues that are producing non-compliance in the first place. So the purpose of the ARBV’s reports is to identify and address the root causes of non-compliance and in turn help to avoid harm to clients, users and the profession.
Now, the objectives of the ARBV’s report are set out in this slide and we're really focusing on three of these objectives. The second one, to identify overarching duties that are owed by architects that underpin a strong compliance culture. The fourth one, to provide practical guidance for architects to strengthen their compliance culture, and the last one, which is to highlight tangible actions that can be taken by architects to really strengthen their compliance culture in practice.
Now there are three key outputs from the ARBV's work on compliance culture. The first is a report containing the the ARBV's detailed analysis and findings about compliance culture in the architecture sector. The second is a one page high level summary identifying the key takeaways from the ARBV's work. And then finally, and particularly of particular importance for the audience today is a booklet containing practical guidance for architects and architectural firms, including sole practitioners, small firms and larger firms, to help them embed a strong compliance culture. It
includes case studies as well as very practical guidance.
Now before we really delve into the details of these core duties, I want to start with some key concepts. So the first is, what is compliance culture. Compliance culture is the combination of shared values, attitudes and habits that guide behaviour, actions and decisions; really affect the way in which people behave in in practice. And it begs the question what do we mean by compliance when we're talking about compliance culture? For architects, it includes the Architects Act, the Architects Regulations and the Code of Professional Conduct, but it applies to the broader scope of regulatory instruments that apply to the provision of architectural services, including the National Construction Code, but also competition law, occupational health and safety law, taxation law, environmental law.
Why does compliance culture matter? Well, a poor compliance culture can lead to poor client-architect relationships. It can mean that clients needs are not met. It can lead to non-compliance which could result in regulatory action and it can have adverse social economic and environmental impacts in practice. On the other hand, a strong compliance culture can reduce compliance risk, but can also enhance trust and confidence in architects and in the profession more generally, and can set a positive example for the broader construction sector.
In terms of what a strong compliance culture looks like in practice, it involves a shared understanding among those participating in a practice as to about about why compliance is important and compliance culture can be strengthened by really embracing these overarching duties, which we will be delving in today.
So, compliant culture, as I mentioned, is the accumulation of values, attitudes, habits, assumptions, aspirations and expectations that really affect and shape everyday actions and decisions and strategies within a firm. And compliance culture is a subset of that and it involves these aspects and the impact they have when architects make decisions about complying with the law. Now, compliance mindset is relates to an individual's internalised commitment to understanding their obligations, making decisions lawfully and with integrity and generally doing the right thing, even in the absence of oversight, and you can see the interlinkage between these two things. The firm will help to foster and cultivate the culture, and this in turn will help to create a positive compliance mindset amongst architects.
A strong compliance culture can drive a positive compliance mindset, and positive compliance mindset amongst architects within a practice can help maintain, sustain a strong compliance culture. So, it's really important for you to reflect on whether or not you model a strong compliance mindset. Do you have a commitment to learning about your compliance obligations? Do you have a thorough understanding of your compliance obligations? Do you accept responsibility for your compliance obligations? And, do you have a vigilant approach in your daily tasks to ensuring that you comply with the regulatory requirements? And finally, do you have a commitment to a compliant pathway, notwithstanding the rewards that might exist for doing otherwise?
Now we're gonna be talking about the overarching duties, which really help you embed a strong compliance culture within your practices, and these overarching duties derive from the social contract that exists between architects and the public more generally, deriving from architects’ professional status, according to which professionals are, and architects in particular, expected to maintain high professional standards. Legislation reinforces the social contract by restricting entry into the market for the provision of architectural services only for those who have qualified and in exchange for the agreement to maintain these high professional standards, and common law elaborates these duties, it's made by judges rather than under a statute and really explains what these duties mean in practice.
There are seven overarching duties that have been identified in the ARBV’s report and these really represent the core values and responsibilities of the architectural profession; they rise above the details of the compliance obligations that apply to architects in in practice. Now it's important to note that while these duties are overarching in the sense that they apply universally, universally, there are some nuances. So, there are differences in the way the overarching duties apply between architects and their clients, which is what we're focusing on today. And also the way in which those duties apply between architects and the profession more generally and also the public, and we'll be delving into those latter two aspects in webinars three and four, which will happen over the course of the next six months.
It's also important to note that the overarching duties, the way in which they're applied, will differ depending upon where whether you're an individual at the individual level. What do you need to do personally to discharge your duties? What do firms need to do in terms of the systems, processes, policies that that they need to put in place to ensure that individuals comply with these duties? And what do project participants need to do collectively to ensure that the overarching duties are discharged? And finally, what needs to happen at the sectoral level by, for example, industry bodies and and regulators?
Now, without getting into the details, the guidance document that I mentioned at the outset explains the strategies that sole practitioners and small firms, as well as large firms, can really put in place to embed a strong compliance culture. This is at a very high level - what is the architecture, pardon the pun, for a strong compliance culture? But what we're talking about today is really delving into the details, the specific compliance obligations that architects need to be aware of and embrace in practice to ensure that they do have a strong compliance culture in in practice.
So here we arrive at the the nuts and bolts of these overarching duties. We've paired related duties. So I'm gonna start with the duty of care and the duty of competence, and you'll see through the discussion that there is some overlap between the various duties, um, what we're trying to do between my presentation and the discussion by Emily and Rebecca is to give give you a sense of how you can comply with these duties, but also what might cause you to trip up in practice.
So just a very brief overview of what these two duties mean in practice. The duty of care is a very important one. It means that architects must carry out their work to the standard of a reasonably competent architect.
So what would a reasonable competent reasonably competent architect do in this situation? At an individual level, it means that the work delivered to the client must be fit for purpose and meet applicable regulatory and technical standards. It also means that the work should be delivered on time, and be appropriately documented. At the firm level, it means that firms must ensure that systems are in place, and supervision and quality assurance processes are also in place, so that all work delivered by architects within the practice to the client meets the standards of a reasonably competent architect and is fit for purpose and meets the client's needs. At the project level, all aspects of the project, from design development through to delivery must meet the applicable standards and regulatory requirements and must be completed within agreed timeframes, and where necessary, under the contractual arrangements; architects must coordinate inputs, manage risk and ensure that the work as a whole remains fit for purpose. At the sectoral level, the duty should be reinforced through relevant CPD programs that focus on architects’ duty of care to their clients.
Complementing the duty of care is the duty of competence owed by architects to their compliance. It means that architects must possess and apply the necessary knowledge, skills and judgment to perform their roles professionally and responsibly. Then at an individual level, they must stay up to date with technical and regulatory developments and they must engage in CPD and recognise the limits of their expertise when providing services to their clients, and this may mean using external providers or another firm instead, if the competence doesn't exist. At the firm level, the firm must ensure that the client work is undertaken by appropriately qualified and competent personnel, with adequate supervision and review mechanisms in place, and staff should be supported in maintaining competence through training, mentoring and CPD programs. At the project level, the project team must collectively demonstrate competence in the design, technical, regulatory and delivery aspects of the project, and architects must ensure that all services delivered to the client are undertaken by competent professionals and that the judgment and decision making are based on best practice. Again, at the sectoral level, industry bodies could support architects in in maintaining their competence through CPD programs. I'll pass now over to Emily and Rebecca to share their insights.
Rebecca Naughtin 19:56
Thanks, Dariel. So just to bring a little bit of perspective from small practice, Emily and I have had a brief discussion, we've identified some key issues and some themes within both of our practices, and some and some differences, and we thought maybe one um, or two things to start with that we could discuss is, um, scope creep and client expectations, documentation and record keeping.
I might, I might just start at that point. So, in small practice, uh, we find that keeping, um, you know, when we're writing our fee proposal, making sure that we've got a really detailed brief in our fee proposal with our clients that we have a focus on, um, uh, residential work ourselves. But I wanna know, you know, what kind of finish on our tapware, all the way through to, uh, you know, how many bedrooms. So really, detail a lot of detail. Um, and then we incorporate that into our client architect agreement. Our client architect agreement is a standard form client architect agreement. We use an Architeam one. We've used an um Institute one, and our Architeam one comes with a variation instruction. So, we're already describing to our clients how we may vary our fees.
Our first service that we offer is part of our feasibility. We have a foundations report in that, and our foundations report we send to our clients as a draft in Word format, and that includes a return brief. We ask our clients to read that, track changes and send it back to us. I want our brief to be solid, so that if any variations to the brief were to occur, we have it in writing and one we also can um keep a record of the change, but we can also then hold um, we can also charge fees for that change. So, we're documenting that process as we're going along.
The other one there is documentation and record keeping. So, we find that sometimes our clients may have forgotten a conversation, and we don't like to hold our clients in a position where maybe he said, she said, they said or I told you so, so some clients we like to keep memos with or we do keep very formal records, uh, with actionable items. I'd be interested with um Emily, how do you, uh, format your scope creep and deal with varying your fees?
Emily Gilfillan 22:45
Thanks, Rebecca. Look, ours, um, our approach is very similar to yours. Yes, we do have to have a return brief to clarify exactly what our clients are asking us to do, um, but just to take a step back in terms of contracts, you mentioned the client-architect agreement. We usually um receive contracts as they're usually bigger um value and complexity. We usually have contracts that um have been written by law firms, um or alternatively we receive Australian Standard contracts, um. So it's ,they're not simple, they quite often have added, um, provisions in there, which are, um, you know, sometimes quite onerous. So yes, they'll do what even the ABIC ones might be used for in smaller practice as well, but um, in ABIC, it certainly has those things like, you know, you're set off and what have you, but in sort of the more, uh, the contracts provided by lawyers that they're obviously a little bit more onerous and and you have to be, um, have to go through and just read very carefully what it is that each clause is talking about. They really don't, um, well, I suppose there's examples where sometimes they ask you to do, um, everything that the principal or the client has asked you to do. Um, it's it's tricky in the sense that, uh, agreeing to that because sometimes you might be asked to do something that actually uh, negates your, uh, statutory obligations. So, you have to sort of maybe ask them to reword their their their clause and and say providing it doesn't, you know, contravene or contradict your obligations, um, as an architect. There's also things like oh, confidentiality. So just being really careful about the contracts and how they talk about confidentiality because we quite often use um third party providers and the Autodesk Construction Cloud to uh, communicate with sub-consultants and, you know, you've just got to make sure that that third party provider is is reputable and and not going to um, you know, you know, be subject to a a cyber-attack, so to speak. And um, yeah, I think really that's probably it from that perspective.
Rebecca Naughtin 25:41
Just a a quick one on the scope beyond expertise. Um, probably, I I mean more difficult to, um, for smaller practices than rather than a larger practice; maybe if you were asked to come in on resi for for a small practice, I guess, uh, sometimes you've just got to decline, um. And we've once hired for some, um, like going into, um, some education work, we've hired an education specialist, but um, you know, we've also tried joint venture work; we've got a really, really robust, um group of consultants. I'm not afraid to pick up the phone and speak to our consultants. You would have some instances, I guess, you know, specialist facades and things like that - how do you deal with, you know, expert work that's, you know, outside of your expertise?
Emily Gilfillan 26:37
Look, uh, you know, we we have to be very upfront about about that. Um, it's, we do, if we need a facade consultant to help us, you know, respond to, you know, FP 1.4, uh, we we certainly reach out to a facade consultant and get them to sort of collaborate with us and work with us through any of the the, you know, water ingress ingress issues that we, you know might might come up against. Um, scope creep; yes, we do, we have forms and things so we might have a, um, design advice change form that will help us automatically notify a client that there might be a change and then we would follow that up with, say, a formal variation, but at least it gets people understanding that there's a departure from what we understand is our our scope. Um, and it just keeps the, I suppose the client expectations in check, so that they know, that, you know they will expect, um, a variation should a design um change notification come through.
Rebecca Naughtin 27:46
Thank you, Dariel, back to you.
Dariel De Sousa 27:50
Thank you. So, let's move along to the next pair of duties. The duty of honesty and impartiality, and the duty to act impartially and sorry, duty of honesty and integrity, and the duty to act impartially and avoid conflicts of interest.
So, starting first with the duty of honesty and integrity, this really is at the heart of being a professional. Architects must act honestly, transparently and ethically in all aspects of their work. They must be truthful and transparent in all their dealings with clients, providing accurate information about progress, costs, risks, things that are really important to the client. They should avoid deception, misrepresentation or concealment of errors, and they should promptly disclose mistakes. Something that came out of the systemic risk research is that architects can find it very difficult to deliver bad news, but it is really important and a fundamental aspect of your duties as a professional.
At the firm level, the firm must establish governance, transparency and accountability policies to ensure honest communication and decision-making with clients. It should foster a culture of integrity within the firm, requiring staff to report errors openly and prioritise ethical conduct over profit and convenience.
At the project level, the project must be managed in such a way that ensures and really hardwires transparency about scope, about fees, about timelines, about project performance, and really embeds honest reporting of any issues affecting project delivery. The project team as a whole must ensure that decisions are made ethically and in good faith, including when managing client expectations, resolving disputes that may arise, or addressing design or compliance challenges that arise along the way.
At the sectoral level, the profession as a whole collectively owes duties to their clients to engage in ethical and professional conduct. And this really, as I mentioned, is at the heart of the architect's status as a professional.
A linked duty is the duty to act impartially and avoid conflicts of interest. A really important duty. So, architects must act impartially and avoid situations where their personal or commercial interests could compromise their professional judgment. So at the individual level, architects must exercise independent and unbiased judgment, ensuring that personal, financial and professional influence interest do not influence in any way their advice or decisions in relation to their clients. They must disclose any actual or potential conflicts of interest to their clients and decline gifts or benefits that could compromise or be perceived to compromise their impartiality.
At the firm level, firms must implement policies, procedures and systems, so that conflicts of interest can be actively and promptly identified, disclosed and managed. The firm should promote a culture of integrity and transparency, ensuring that all staff act in the best interests of their clients, even when doing so may adversely impact on the firm's own commercial position.
At a project level, any relationships or interests involving contractors, consultants or suppliers must be disclosed and managed openly to protect client interest, trust and project integrity.
And once again, architects owe a duty at the sectoral level to their clients to ensure that impartial and professional conduct is always followed. So, I'm going to pass back to Emily and Rebecca.
Rebecca Naughtin 32:13
So um, again, just some themes that Emily and I, um, picked up on this and I'll just start off on the first three. The big one there for small practice is the the the client relationship and bias, and I'm just gonna clump those first three, financial and fee pressures, client relationship bias and misrepresentation of expertise.
But the smaller firms often face, uh, you know, inconsistent cash flow, might be tempted to overstate our claims, uh, fee claims, underestimate fee costs. We might have an informal client relationship, it might be a mate, it might be a family member or something like that. We have a policy in our office to adopt ethical review practices. We have an office manual. We also are very transparent with our clients no matter who they are, that we don't reduce our fees, because in doing so, it compromises our service quality and increases our professional risk. It also undermines our business sustainability. It devalues our profession.
Um, and it also, you know, potentially risks the, um, service that I can provide for our S uh, for our client. And no client wants that that service compromised. Um, Emily, what's your position on, um like, do do you get caught up in any negotiation with clients looking for a bit of a discount or anything like that because of a relationship?
Emily Gilfillan 33:52
Look, yes, sometimes it can; look, I suppose, you know, from our perspective, you know, bigger projects sometimes means bigger problems. Um, so, you know, we, too, have financial pressures and some of the contracts that we receive talk about milestone payments rather than monthly, you know, invoiced, um, solutions. So,
you know, we have have difficulties sometimes managing that or negotiating that at the outset. Um, what we do also find, that, you know because of that, we quite often have to, um, provide monthly activity reports, uh, in addition to our invoices, that tracks exactly all the activity that we've done in that month in order to claim that, um, our monthly invoice. So, it it does come into, you know, there are similar pressures. In terms of um, bias, look, you always wanna do business with people you know and like, um, and trust. So, relationships are always important, I think across the board. It's just probably sometimes at a little bit more arm's length maybe, in the larger practice. I mean to have great, great friendships with with clients and and sub-consultants, but again, I suppose, you know, we're quite often principal design consultant or lead consultant on a lot of our projects, so that, you know, and you actually want to work with like-minded sub-consultants who you know and trust in delivering whatever work it is. So sometimes, yeah, you do tend to go to the same sub-consultants that you might have used and you know you work well with, and they know how you work as well. Um. So, I I suppose that's where we find some of the challenges.
Rebecca Naughtin 35:50
Do you, do you maintain a conflict of interest register?
Emily Gilfillan 35:54
Um, no, we don't, but we probably should. Um, no, I um, I think, look, it it before we're even engaged on a project, if there is a conflict, that is flagged, I I don't think we've ever been in the situation. Well, I I in my experience, I've never been in a situation where there is a conflict of interest. Um, no, sorry, I can't answer that one. Have you?
Dariel De Sousa 36:31
Um, I think, uh, Rebecca's frozen, um, Emily. But can I, while we're waiting for her to come back online, can I just ask you to touch on the last, uh, couple of bullet points? Um, you know, taking on multiple roles and relationships and potentially dual representation, any uh, just, very briefly, any reflections on how issues can arise in in those contexts?
Emily Gilfillan 36:57
Look, you know, I I think the point around that was we quite often, you know, it, given our industry, and it does go through, um, peaks and flows, and we do tend to have, um, different people sometimes moving in and out of our organisations and I do know Rebecca has had situations where, you know, sometimes it's the brain drain for smaller practices, more so for larger, but it can happen at at the larger practice area as well. The, I suppose it's um, look, in interestingly enough, you know, we, um, you know, you sometimes come and get up against, um, situations where somebody might be, not that we do, might might be a profession in another discipline, like an architect might have also trained as a, you know, an engineer, or they may may have trained also as a building surveyor, or or or some other sort of complementary profession, and and I think the point is to make sure that when we're communicating with people that, you know, they know exactly which hat you're wearing in that meeting. So, making sure that nobody thinks that you're actually giving them a, you know, say, say an an architect is also a a professional engineer, making sure that, you know, when you're giving advice, you're actually giving advice from the correct perspective. It's just really important.
Dariel De Sousa 38:38
Thanks so much for that, Emily. And I'm going to continue. Hopefully we manage to get Rebecca back in the meantime. So, onto the next pair of duties, the duty to apply all applicable laws and the duty of confidentiality.
So let's start with the duty to apply and comply with all applicable laws. This is a big one, a challenging one as well. Architects must, under the code of professional conduct, adhere to all legal and regulatory requirements relevant to their work. So at the individual level, at a minimum, it means that architects must understand and comply with all their legal and regulatory obligations arising under the Architects Act, the Architects Regulations, which includes the Code of Professional Conduct, but it also includes the National Construction Code as well as the broader legal requirements that apply to the provision of architectural services, and I mentioned at the outset that this could include competition laws, occupational health and safety laws, planning laws, building laws, etc.
At the firm level, the firm must maintain robust compliance policies and systems to ensure that all their staff, and any sub-contractors they engage, operate within legal and regulatory boundaries. It the firm should establish training and oversight mechanisms to prevent breaches that could expose clients or the firm to legal risk.
At the project level, the project as a whole must comply with all applicable laws, including planning laws, building laws, environmental standards, et cetera, and necessary approvals need to be in place, and in many cases, architects will be involved in the approval process.
Dariel De Sousa 40:30
In the project context, architects must provide accurate and lawful advice and guidance to client clients about the regulatory approvals required and compliance requirements, and they must ensure that their decisions and documentation comply with applicable legal standards. And, once again, at the sectoral level, the architectural profession as a whole collectively owes clients a duty to uphold lawful and ethical practice when delivering architectural services.
A paired or a linked duty is the duty of confidentiality. So, architects owe clients a duty to keep their information and communications private unless they are expressly authorised to disclose that information or they're legally required to disclose it under some law.
At the individual level, this means that architects must ensure that private client communications are are securely stored and that they are only disclosed when interacting with third parties when this has been expressly consented to or authorised by the client.
At the firm level, the firm must establish and enforce policies and systems so that information that has been provided confidentiality confidentially by the client is securely handled, stored and that sharing of client information is is authorized. The firm should ensure that all employees and any contractors understand and comply with their confidentiality obligations, including data protection, controls on access to information and procedures for lawful disclosure where this is required.
At the project level, when you're interacting with other players, you must exercise care when sharing confidential client information with consultants, contractors and other stakeholders, only as necessary and as authorized, and architects must manage information flows carefully to ensure that privacy obligations have been met, and once again, at the sectoral level, the architectural profession as a whole collectively owes their clients a duty to uphold confidentiality as a core professional standard. So, I'm going to pass now over to Bec, to Emily, rather, and hopefully Rebecca comes back online shortly.
Emily Gilfillan 43:03
Thank you, Dariel. Look, I'm gonna start covering off on some of Bec’s points because, um, I'm aware of those. And in a small practice, uh, one of, one of the issues that she found was, um, you know, she has, quite often, limited administrative capability, or not capability capacity, so, because she's wearing many hats and, do you know, doing, you know, being, you know, the designer and then she's documenting and and speaking to suppliers and what have you. They sometimes don't have the the ability to constantly, um, you know, record everything that they're doing. So, there are some workarounds that in a small practice that she might do in terms of, you know, in um, creating min minutes of a meeting, might be in an e-mail and it it might be just tracking everything that they're doing, um, for a project. So, instead of, you know, individual or separate reports for QA and everything else, it's it's being kept within, um, you know, other formats of of communication. The, um, whereas in a large practice, you know, we have a far more formalised QA, we we we are, um, certified, uh, QA systems and and constantly making sure that, you know, we have approval to proceed to, you know, next phases of of a project. We have, you know, done our safety and design risk register and we've issued it to all our sub-consultants and had all their feedback in, and so it's a consolidated safety and design register, and and so on. So, I suppose, um, we we do sometimes, you know you, given that, you know, as I mentioned before, you know, big projects sometimes is is big issues, the protection of of data, as I mentioned before, is really important. So ,if we are using ACC, the Autodesk Construction Cloud for ease of communicating in collaboration with our sub-consultants, we must be assured that that is, um, a secure platform. The the other thing is, is that we quite often, um, I think that Rebecca's coming back in, but um, the other thing that we quite often do is, is use AI as well and we've just got to be careful about making sure that whatever form of AI we're doing, even though it might give us some productivity gains, we need to make sure that we're not contravening any other sort of copyright laws, I suppose, which is really important as well. Um, but I'm gonna pass on to Rebecca because Rebecca, I have mentioned the fact that you might be wearing many hats as a small practice and you might do workarounds rather than formal record keeping. But so, maybe you might like to talk about the staff turnover piece.
Rebecca Naughtin 46:14
Uh, yes. OK. Now joining from a different device, it's third go now. Um, I could you just give me a thumbs up that you can hear me OK, Emily? Great. Thank you. Um, can I just touch on that other bit about the, um, the documentation? Because I'd I'd I'd just talk about our minutes a little bit because the record keeping, because our minutes that we take for our meetings are really extensive because we don't do, we we administer our ABIC contracts and they are very extensive minutes. Our minutes have our original and our adjusted PC dates, our original and adjusted cost of works as well. We also include sometimes very basic architects‘ instructions, which I highlight. We also list all of our variations that are outstanding. I find that our builders can be pretty relaxed about providing paperwork to us, so I try to make sure that we are prompting our builders on paperwork, so everything that we can put into our minutes is is super important. Now you're in terms of that confidentiality with the staff turnover, just making sure that we have really, really strong con, like a conversation. Um, we have, um, for exit. Is that right, Emily? Is that what you wanted me to talk about? Yeah, that exit conversation, um, and confidentiality, um, uh,
uh is really, really important, um, because we want to embrace our, uh, our, our departing employees, um, and make it feel really comfortable when they leave. Um, because we the last thing we want is for them to take information with them, um,
in anger and um, it's really important that, um, our our clients information is, um, most importantly, um kept confidential. So, we do discuss this with our with our employees and we discuss that when we signing our, um, employment contracts with them as well.
Dariel De Sousa 48:45
Thanks so much, Emily and Rebecca. Rebecca, good to have you back. And Emily, thank you for really highlighting the different ways in which large firms and small firms can apply these duties in in practice. We're running slightly behind schedule, so we're just gonna hot-foot it along.
The last duty that we want to share with you, and in fact both Rebecca and Emily have already touched on this duty throughout the course of the discussion, relates to the duty to keep records and communicate effectively.
So, as it has already been mentioned, architects must maintain accurate, complete, complete and accessible records of their work. And what this looks like may differ depending upon whether you're in a small firm or a large firm. They need to communicate clearly, honestly and promptly with their clients and others involved in a project, where necessary.
So, at the individual level, architects must document all key decisions, communications and agreements with clients, to ensure that it is very clear, as Rebecca pointed out earlier earlier, and that there's transparency and accountability as to what has been agreed between the architect and the client. Architects need to communicate clearly, accurately and in a timely manner, keeping clients informed about really important things like project progress, risks, issues that are may affect cost, quality or the project schedule.
At the firm level, the firm must maintain robust policies and systems for record keeping and information management. We've already touched on that in the discussion with Emily and Rebecca, and the firm should train staff in effective communication practices and ensure that all correspondence and project project records are properly stored, securely stored and retrievable.
At the project level, the project team in totality must ensure accurate documentation of project developments, including design decisions, approvals, instructions and variations, and again the way in which this is done, depending upon whether it's a small project or a large project, may vary, and communication with clients, consultants and contractors must be coordinated timely and transparent.
And once again, at at the sectoral level across the profession, architects owe a duty to communicate and document appropriately.
Now, in order to ensure that you all have an opportunity for some questions and answers, I'll just ask Rebecca and Emily to come back on board just very quickly in a minute or two to touch on, and I apologise for squeezing your time, but just to touch on issues that you haven't discussed already about communication and record keeping.
Rebecca Naughtin 51:43
Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll be really brief on this one, but I I wanted to touch on, um live documents and sharing them with clients. So, we use Google Sheets for live documents, RFI with clients and, um, defects lists, as well. We don't have to go so hardcore with some confidentiality with some documents, but I just find RFIs and defects lists that clients can just update things. They can provide feedback to us really quickly, um, in their own time, what, at 6/7/8 o'clock at night, whatever, um, and defects list all through defects liability period, they can update that list, add photos, links to photos and we can keep that list live. Um, I find that really helpful.
Emily Gilfillan 52:38
Look, I suppose we have, um, as part of our QA system, we do have uh lots of systems and processes documented that we we must follow. Um, one of one of the ways that we can definitely keep, um, our records sort of safe and and and tracked uh using um project management software like Acconex, Procore, others. So, and that's helpful for also recording defects, you know, because if you, if you're on a on a large project also working, you know, you might be novated to a builder. It's just a really easy way of tracking and closing out defects like that, um, and I I suppose, yeah, communication is key with with anything, um, making sure that we've done all our proper sort of design review processes; it's it's been reviewed internally, everything's been issued. One thing we also do is have, obviously, disclaimers,
on uh, Revit models, uh. However, if clients start asking for, you know, AutoCAD exports, we have a um, a transmittal that talks about, you know, how and how this file should be used and shouldn't be relied on once it's outside of our, you know, cloud-based system. So, um, it's just really important to make sure that that's really clear.
Dariel De Sousa 54:05
Thanks so much, Emily and Rebecca, and just some, uh, very quick concluding remarks. So, the overarching duties that we've discussed with you are really key to a strong compliance culture. The overarching duties which we've simplified into a suite of seven really help to simplify architects‘ compliance obligations into a clear, practical framework to help you ensure professional conduct. And these overarching duties that we've discussed really embody the core values and responsibilities that define architects as professional, and if you consistently apply these duties, it will help to ensure that your architectural services are delivered lawfully, ethically and to a high standard, and this, in turn, helps to strengthen confidence in both individual practitioners as well as the profession as a whole. And I'll now pass over to the Chair of the ARBV, Giorgio Marfella, who will moderate the Q&A session. Thanks, Giorgio.
Giorgio Marfella 55:08
Thank you, Dariel and thank you, Emily and Rebecca. We managed despite some technical issues, so thank you very much for for for managing anyway. And look, we have one, two questions, actually, that came through that touched on the same topic and that's a bit of, a very touchy topic, I know, among architects that the term fitness for purpose. I think, I believe you might have been raised in the context of some of the earlier comments, Dariel, that you made probably in the context of of over overarching duties. And so would you mind to to explain obviously in which context that term has been referred to, which is not the same of course as the one for built products.
Dariel De Sousa 55:50
I guess it's, you know, I I use that term loosely to mean that the the design needs needs to meet the client's needs as as documented. So, it the the design needs to be fit for the purposes that the client intended the design to be used for. It's not a term of art or a legislative term, but it was just a shorthand way of saying that when you design something, it actually has to be fit for the purpose for which it is intended.
Giorgio Marfella 56:19
And Emily, Rebecca, would you like to add anything on that?
Emily Gilfillan 56:23
Um, look, I I totally agree with Dariel, and sometimes the wording of a contract is such that it's fit for purpose and and what we might do as a larger organisation is actually just slightly reword it. But yes, for its intended purpose because it's onerous laws.
Giorgio Marfella 56:43
Yeah, that that that there is a risk, of course, that that the services could be mistaken as a warranty of ’product fitness for purpose’, which is obviously a fundamental difference, and we should also remind everybody that we are aware of the fact that the Australian consumer law provides an exemption for architects and engineers about the provisional warranties. But this is not to say, however, that some clients, as you pointed out, may slide through some terms of of that kind that could be problematic for for architects, so it's important.
So, another, I don't know if there's any other posts. I'll just quickly have a look. I think there was a new one that just came in, so, oh, can I record of the presentation be obtained? Yes, it will. They're all recorded and they are available on the ARBV. I should also mention another housekeeping thing: the the questionnaire will be, as you would have noticed, we haven't provided the questions in time for you to complete the questions through the presentation, so you can do that separately, but and submit it, of course, and and then we'll we'll provide a certificate of attendance.
But I just want to take advantage of this last couple of minutes to to, I have my own questions I suppose, to to ask to Emily and Rebecca; you mentioned the issue of turnover in in firms and but from the perspective of a small practice in particular, Rebecca, you said can be problematic, but so this make me think what role both small and large practice can play, and in what in what different way, in educating the younger generation of architects, graduates and or or less experienced from your perspective. Rebecca, maybe I'll start with you and then I'll move on to Emily.
Rebecca Naughtin 58:33
Oh, I it's it's a a great honour to be able to educate, um, our future, the future architects of this world; to be honest, I feel like I've got a huge duty of care to to to train our future architects and I believe that they should be involved in work from conception to completion, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to involve, I've been involved in academia for quite some time and I scoop up students and and I involve them and part of internship through the universities. A lot of the universities run their internships and if I can, if I can bring the students in at that point in time, I try to keep them through in through employment, but we my students don't tend to leave, they then graduate and stay with me, and then they stay on and and register and and keep going. But I I they don't, I like to involve my students in every single facet of of practice, but that is just the the nature of small practice and and it's a beautiful thing and I see this all through the APE as well, is that that exposure to every facet of practice is is a it's a delight to have a a conversation with those. But I also have a delight having a conversation with a candidate who has a lot of experience in something that I don't have a lot of experience in, which is something like novation, um, or, you know, rail design or level crossing design, which is, you know, $11 billion projects, which blows my mind. You know, you've gotta, you've gotta have architects of all flavours too, so a huge role to shorten that back down again.
Giorgio Marfella 1:00:34
Thank you. Emily.
Emily Gilfillan 1:00:35
I look, I agree and I understand we're out of time, but I, look, I totally agree, and um, you know, it's it's a privilege and an honor to be able to help, you know. I I had, you know, some really great mentors in in my, um, younger years and you know, think very, very highly and and and fondly of them, because they really did, you know, some of them taught me how to detail, some of them have taught me, you know, the contractual, you know, um, issues and you know, it is really important. I do also say to any of my people that I ever mentor that, you know, you know, you learn as much as you can with whomever you can, but if you stop learning, that's when it's time to move on and actually learn from others, because you can only learn so much. But I'll I'll leave you with that. But it's a it's a it's a, I love it.
Giorgio Marfella 1:01:31
Thank you very much Emily and Rebecca and thank you Dariel, again, for for yet another presentation for the ARBV. And as you mentioned, there'll be also a follow-up again on the research. So, I'll take the opportunity to to thank everybody
attending this webinar. This is not the last one of the year, that, we have another one in schedule and we'll we'll provide some details soon. So, until then, I wish you all a good afternoon. Thank you.
Rebecca Naughtin 1:02:01
Thank you.
Dariel De Sousa 1:02:01
Thanks everyone.
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